Have It All. Don't Do It All.

Transcript provided as a courtesy only, it has not been edited for content, clarity, or accuracy.

Susan Taylor:

So let's say I had to go to Chicago for four days. I would write four letters and each night the babysitter or my mom would read the letter to them and it would talk about a place in Chicago and give them a little bit of history. And do you know as adults, sometimes I say, "Well, can you write us some letters and leave us some trinkets?" But many women feel very conflicted about leaving the children.

Stacey Moore:

And their partners

Susan Taylor:

Too. And their partners. And I think there are ways that we can do it and still have them feel connected to us and we're connected to them.

Stacey Moore:

I love that. And I actually thought when you started to talk about the letters that you were really talking about, you were going to pre-manage every day of their life while you were gone because that's what I did.

Susan Taylor:

Well, I'm sure I had a schedule in there too. Hey Stacy. Hey

Stacey Moore:

There.

Susan Taylor:

How are you? I'm

Stacey Moore:

Good, thank you.

Susan Taylor:

How was your morning?

Stacey Moore:

It was good. I really feel like I'm starting to delegate a little bit more. It's a good thing.

Susan Taylor:

Excellent. So you know what? I decided to have a massage. And for me, it's not just the relaxation of the massage, but it is a time in my day where I just sit still. I'm never still. I'm in constant motion. And to just lie there and reflect and think is transformative for me.

Stacey Moore:

I think there's so many of myself included and a lot of my friends, they say, "I'm not good at meditation. I'm not good at the sitting still." We could get in a total side note about hormonally why that is the case. But ultimately, sometimes what you hear from everyone these days is, "I can't turn my brain off."

Susan Taylor:

No, absolutely. You're

Stacey Moore:

Perfecting this?

Susan Taylor:

Well -

Stacey Moore:

Please tell me more.

Susan Taylor:

We can't turn our brains off because I think of all of the things we have to do. So we hear so often, "Can you do it all? Can you have it all?" And my answer has been no, you can't have it all at the same time. You can have it all sequentially and you can't do it all at the same time. And I think that's one of the reasons why we love the idea of polish not perfect, because that's really the message.

Stacey Moore:

For sure. And maybe that's that having it all never really was supposed to mean doing it all yourself. So hopefully we can pass on some wisdom for how you can delegate and not just in your own mind, but some physical activities as well, whether that's at home or at work, at your volunteer activities. We haven't even talked about that yet.

Susan Taylor:

That's right. Well, I think the first thing is many women feel shame. They feel shame because they're not doing X, Y, Z. They feel shame for asking for help. And a lot of times those women will say, "My mother did it." Well, just because your mom did it doesn't mean that you have to do it. And there is no shame in asking for help and to get help.

Stacey Moore:

But also if that help can also mean enjoyment and something that you like to do, because even as I hear you saying you're going to get a massage, I'm thinking I'm already feeling guilty for you.

Susan Taylor:

Right. Well, I got over that a long time ago. You did.

Stacey Moore:

I've

Susan Taylor:

Learned a lot from

Stacey Moore:

You related

Susan Taylor:

To that. No, absolutely. Because for me, just the massage, it serves so many different roles. Like I said, I sit still, I get to think, I get to relax, I get to reflect. My muscles are worked on. There's a degree of rigidity of your body when you're sitting in that computer while you're working so hard. So it really accomplishes so many goals. And you know what? I feel no shame. Absolutely. And have not felt shame. Now, let me tell you this story. So my mother was a single mother to my sister and myself, and she pretty much did it all. But even though we were of limited means, Stacy, a couple of times she hired people to come in to clean.

Stacey Moore:

Good for her.

Susan Taylor:

And she put away that money so that would happen. But fast-forward, I have a couple of kids. My mom is amazing. She helps me. And one day she said to me, "My God, Sue, could you hire anyone else?" And I said, "You know, mommy, I would if I had more money. I feel no shame because there are things that are important and things I want to do, and there are things I don't want to do. So when I hire someone, it is to do those roles that I don't want to do that have nothing to do with being a physician, which have nothing to do with nurturing my children." And people talk about quality time. So as I've said before to you, I want to give the baths, I want to read the stories, I want to do the homework, I want to know what their day was like.

Those are the important things. I didn't need to drive them to soccer or to gymnastics on a twice, three time weekly basis. So I never believed in being superwoman.

Stacey Moore:

But I do think that as I hear you say that story a little bit, it's also, could you and all of us as moms and in relationships, could you have shared why you didn't want to clean the house? Would your daughters have been able to pitch in a

Susan Taylor:

Little bit? Okay.

Stacey Moore:

Okay.

Susan Taylor:

So the answer is yes, but here's the thing. Back then, in hindsight, I would've made them get up on Saturday morning. I'd have had them clean in those toilets and the bathroom floor, and I didn't do it. Now they did have some chores of putting things away, but no, you're absolutely right. If I had it to do all over again, I would involve them completely.

Stacey Moore:

Sure. And I think that's the interesting thing now having children that are out of the house and mine are in college. And I have one daughter in an apartment with roommates, navigating those relationships, never really having roommates before. We were fortunate enough to have a home where my kids had their own room, so she never had to share a room with someone before until she went to the dorm and now even again in an apartment, my son, the same thing. And I think to myself, the things that now have changed that dynamic with my children is sharing the things that I'm burdened by. And I think that as a parent, if you can share with them the things that overwhelm you, your kids might pick up a little bit more than

Susan Taylor:

You think. Absolutely.

Stacey Moore:

We're not communicating as often as we could to everyone around us with the things that we really do need help with. And I think giving the kids a chance would actually help them. They don't really have home economics anymore in class and we don't really talk about those roles. And all we're really doing is perpetuating that if we don't stop and do it.

Susan Taylor:

My sister has three kids. She has twin daughters and a son, and they switch nights cooking. And I'm like, "What?"

Stacey Moore:

Yeah.

Susan Taylor:

I think it's wonderful.

Stacey Moore:

My daughter and I did the same thing with... There's so many great services now that deliver either a fully almost cooked meal to you or even just the ingredients. It was difficult for me when my daughter at the time was vegetarian. I was not. And so what we decided to do was one of those meal programs and we would cook together. And yes, it was a problem that I'd had to be home in order to make that happen. I traveled a lot, but that was also something that we looked forward to together. I got to make shakshuka and I had never made that before. I don't

Susan Taylor:

Even know what it is. Stacy, you mentioned travel and I traveled a lot when my kids were young and as often as possible, we took them with us and they've seen amazing places and been around the world, but there are a lot of times that we left them at home and there were certain things that I did that as adults they talk about. And so for example, let's say pick a place, just name a city.

Stacey Moore:

Bali. Oh, Chicago.

Susan Taylor:

Okay, Chicago.

Stacey Moore:

Sorry.

Susan Taylor:

Okay. I'll take Bali, but Chicago. So let's say I had to go to Chicago for four days. I would write four letters and each night the babysitter or my mom would read the letter to them and it would talk about a place in Chicago and give them a little bit of history or a little bit about what we saw that day. And then I would enclose a little trinket, whether it was a key chain that said Chicago or something or their baseball team, a cap. So that was my way of trying to connect my kids to us in a way that was different from just talking on the phone and keep that connection. And do you know as adults, sometimes I say, "Well, can you write us some letters and leave us some trinkets?" But many women feel very conflicted about leaving the children.

Stacey Moore:

And their partners

Susan Taylor:

Too. And their partners, right? And I think there are ways that we can do it and still have them feel connected to us and we're connected to them. And that was just one little way.

Stacey Moore:

I love that. And I actually though when you started to talk about the letters that you were really talking about, you were going to pre-manage every day of their life while you were gone because that's what I did.

Susan Taylor:

Well, I'm sure I had a schedule in there too, but this was something just kind of more intimate between the kids and myself.

Stacey Moore:

That's

Susan Taylor:

Nice. And I bet every woman, no matter what she does, wonders, should I be home with my kids? And I wondered that as well. My kids went to a school where many of the moms stayed at home and probably about a third did not. And as adults, I say to my kids, "Well, would you have rather me stayed at home?" And they're like, "Absolutely not. We are so proud of what you've done." So that's just another way that women can feel guilty and probably should not feel guilty.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely. I think that not everyone does want to stay at home full-time. And I think that when you've made that decision, whether your job offers and affords travel to you, one of the things that we did, and you and I have talked about this before, trying to mix that family time with the work time when you get to travel to a fun location, or even maybe not necessarily a fun location, but bringing them with you so that they can actually see what happens when you go on the road or in an airport, what have you. What we've done in the past, and I know I've talked with other colleagues about this too, is we would challenge our children to think and go in and research that city and come up with things that they wanted to do. Instead of me or my partner at the time going through and picking things for them to do, they would have to take a little bit of responsibility for things that they would want to do while we were there or restaurants that they might like to go to or other activities.

And they feel more sense of ownership of those things. I think that's a lot of fun for them potentially. But preparing for that travel, not trying to pre-manage what people are doing, but also encouraging both prior to leaving, but also when you're gone, the nice things that you can do for whomever is at home I think is really important. I think maybe even planning an activity potentially for your family while you're gone. I know you feel a little bit left out sometimes when they're all out there having fun or they're not missing you, you're gone and hear like, oh man, they're doing something really cool and you missed it because you're at this work function. 100%. That happens so many

Susan Taylor:

Times. 100%.

Stacey Moore:

And I used to have rules where I wouldn't want to talk to the family sometimes when I was traveling because I would feel like I was missing out on some of those things. So I think whatever works for you, but also managing not every child is the same. So what might work for one might not work for the other. So you might have to adapt that a little bit.

Susan Taylor:

That's right. And there were times, particularly when they were teenagers, when I was scheduled to go on a trip and there was just an issue, usually an emotional issue that I felt I couldn't leave them and I would cancel the trip, right? Sure. So that's just to say there's so many different hiccups in life and aspects of life and you just have to be flexible.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely. I think it's funny now, you fast-forward to present day from where we started, we do so many programs now over virtual meetings and Zooms. And I think one of the most fun things, I was just recently running a webinar and the speaker was doing a great job presenting her slides and all of a sudden her daughter came in and interrupted her presentation and she looked so guilty and so upset by that. And I said, "Keep going. It's great. This is why we're working from home. This is why we're doing what we're doing. Don't feel guilty about those things or any level of shame." Think about years ago, I don't remember now who a third party expert was on TV and somebody came in and interrupted them and he was pushing and chewing them away. I think that's probably what made everybody, he was more endearing and you fell in love with that scenario because it's not perfect.

That's right. Those not perfect moments are the things that make us that much more real. So that's what makes it fun.

Susan Taylor:

100%. Talk a little bit about the resentment that women sometimes feel in regard to their role at work as well as at home.

Stacey Moore:

Yeah. I think some of that actually boils down to not just communication, but also time management. And there are some really great tools to utilize for time management now too, but the communication part of that and making sure that you're also, just like when you come home from a trip, I don't know if you do what I do, but I'll often have gone on a trip and let's say it's your toiletry bag as an example, I'll restock it almost immediately when I come back so it's ready to go the next time. That's another sort of tip and trick I have. But think about that for how you felt while you were on that trip. Did you resent something or was there resentment when you came home because the home wasn't clean or things slipped through the cracks while you were gone for whatever reason? Instead of walking in the door feeling that level of resentment, is there something that you can do in terms of a moment of self-reflection or delegating or communicating better so that that type of thing doesn't make you feel that way again?

And I think those are opportunities. Think about whether it's your toiletry bag or that school trip or whatever it was that happened when you were gone, how did it make you feel and how do you want to make sure that it doesn't happen in the same way again? And that doesn't mean taking it on yourself. So there could be some other ways. I mean, I think I love that you have had some great executive assistants in the past. Not everyone has been in a position to do that and not every executive assistant will do personal things too, but if you can happen to find that balance along the way, I think that could work for a lot of different people.

Susan Taylor:

So now in my life, at this stage of my life, I'm the queen of delegation and I had a very busy year last year. I had the distinct honor of being the president of the American Academy of Dermatology, only the sixth woman. Oh,

Stacey Moore:

Right.

Susan Taylor:

No, but no, it's sad actually. It is. This organization, which is a wonderful organization, has been in existence 87 years. And in 87 years for me to be the sixth woman is really very sad, especially now since most of the membership is composed of women. And we won't even talk about the fact that I was the first person of African descent, but

I traveled well over 200 days out of the year and I went to 10 countries and all over the United States. So my household person, I had her pack. She would have two or three bags packed at the same time because I would come in, be there less than 24 hours and have to go out again. And there was a bag there I could grab and just leave. And I just can't tell you how much easy that meant. I know that's unusual circumstances, but I just want to use it as an example of ways that you don't have to necessarily be up all night. Now of course I said, okay, put the blue suit and the black suit and the yellow suit and the... So I gave her general directions, but I think having that help just is invaluable and simplifying some things.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely. Well, and I think too, now I would've probably taken it from a different perspective of when we travel, what are we going to be wearing? And you try to simplify, not pack too much and things like that. Because

Susan Taylor:

I never checked. I only do roller boards. I

Stacey Moore:

Mean, that's great. And I find that very difficult. I'm an over-packer because I don't know what I'm going to be doing. But I see that as an opportunity for fun now. When I travel for work now, I will build in extra time to do things for fun, which I didn't do when I first started my career. I was very focused and I did not spend extra time in any city. It was get there and get back. And now it's a little bit different. Again, as we say at this stage in life, it's a little bit

Susan Taylor:

Different. Okay girl, I got a few things to teach you. Number one, I had a blue blazer, blue slacks, blue skirt and blue dress and a contrasting color dress that I could wear with the blazer. So that's like five outfits.

Stacey Moore:

In one

Susan Taylor:

Bag. Yeah. In one bag. And then you put a black dress in for the dinner, of course underwear. I'd have a pair of flat shoes, a pair of heels, and a pair of sneakers I'd wear on the plane.

Stacey Moore:

Yep. It's perfect.

Susan Taylor:

Oh, nighgown. I was done. But then

Stacey Moore:

What

Susan Taylor:

If you

Stacey Moore:

Need to work out?

Susan Taylor:

Well, you can throw in a workout outfit, but you have to wear it again.

Stacey Moore:

Yes.

Susan Taylor:

Right?

Stacey Moore:

Okay. Well, actually I've gotten better at using hotel laundry service too.

Susan Taylor:

Oh,

Stacey Moore:

That's a great idea. So that's something that I've done a couple of times. When I have a longer trip, I'll have them launder my clothes before I return home. Then I have less to do when I come home.

Susan Taylor:

And I've always done something after the conference, even if it's a day or half a day, I will look and see what's available. I love art. So for me, it's what museum can I go to? That brings me just such great joy. Or if I have the flexibility of the weekend, then sometimes I look at a map and see what's nearby because combining that pleasure with the work, I think that's just the perfect balance.

Stacey Moore:

I think it's also about slowing down a little bit, not always getting to that next thing and paying more attention. I mean, I don't know if you feel this way, but sometimes it feels like the airports all look the same to me and it's just about what concourse am I in now and where am I going? I find it difficult sometimes too to eat healthy when I'm traveling, so I'll pack some things for myself too. I'm not a big fast food eater often. I used to be. I'm no longer that person. Good for you. And also you'll look at museums and art galleries and things like that. I'll look at what other cuisine can I try or is there a really well rated chef in the area and we can go have a great meal? And something like that is similar in terms of that experience.

Susan Taylor:

And not only does it bring pleasure, but I think it lowers that stress level and that anxiety level and just starts to bring you down because it takes so much energy to do what you do and what I do.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely.

Susan Taylor:

And that go, go, go, go, go, I think is part of why our longevity is not quite as long as many men.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely. Well, we just shared this morning, we were talking a little bit about you need to keep in mind that women live longer when they curse. So you need to keep that in mind too. So maybe a couple of words along the way. Well chosen. Yeah. Well chosen words as you're doing your daily activities could help.

Susan Taylor:

Well, I think that's because we hold so much in and suppress so much and to try to let it out. I don't think you have to necessarily let it out by cursing, but you can let it out by voicing it, right? By saying it.

Stacey Moore:

Absolutely. And communicating clearly what it is so that you're not taking everything on yourself. And whether that's at work or at home or even as you travel. This morning in my hotel, we had jackhammering from construction. We had an alarm that went off and we had to actually evacuate the hotel this morning. Those are things that you may say to yourself, "I'm not stressed," but those are little moments that add to that burden of what you have during the day. So there are definitely things that I think women also feel guilty, and men do too, but feel guilty about what they feel guilty about. And so how do you manage all of that and kind of keep it in check? And so for me, it was a matter of just taking a few more minutes. And while I was evacuating that building, I walked around the block and then it was a beautiful morning this morning.

Instead of standing there stressed, it was like, "All right, I'm going to take a quick little walk and I'll go back in and everything's good." So there's lots of different ways to sort of deal with that. Creating an opportunity to carry a reasonable load on a daily basis and not overdoing it. I think that's what Polish Not Perfect is really about is where is that, whatever you think perfection is, figure it out for yourself and then try to create those communication moments, not just personally, that checklist that you need, but also how do you reflect on that and change it up and adapt depending on where you are and who you're with? I think it's funny that I never realized that I, very early on in my career, I think I equated success to working my butt off. That was actually, and I never realized that.

Me too. I thought the busier I was, that meant the more successful I was. That's not true. That's a good point. And I think that whenever it is that you finally realize that and whatever it is

Susan Taylor:

That

Stacey Moore:

You're doing, you'll thank yourself because I don't think... And it's one of those moments where I have these conversations with my girlfriends now where we'll say, "That's not really a badge of honor to say, I did it all alone." And there are moments where you could have paused and maybe shared some of that or delegated more or whatever it may be.

Susan Taylor:

Well, here's the other thing in terms of career. In January 1st, instead of creating a resolution, I create a mission statement. And the mission statement is really based on what I want to do that year. It

Stacey Moore:

Sounds way more badass.

Susan Taylor:

What do I want to accomplish? What's my number one goal? And I let that mission statement guide me. How does it guide me? I get requests to do things all the time. I go back, does this fit in with my mission statement? And if it doesn't, I have no guilt saying, "Thank you very much. Sounds very exciting. Maybe in the future, this is not the right time for me." And I've learned to say no to those things that do not fit into the mission statement and yes to those things that do. And that will help decrease having to work all the time because I've weeded out those things that I don't need to do.

Stacey Moore:

Sure. And I would imagine within that mission statement too, it doesn't have to be as lofty as it sounds.

Susan Taylor:

Correct.

Stacey Moore:

For me, I just had a weekend at the beach with my children. My goal was to read a book for pleasure. There you go. Which I had not done in a very long time, and it felt like a great accomplishment from Friday to Monday, I was able to read a book for pleasure. They can be small goals too along the way, but how you compartmentalize that and deal with that I think is really important. And sharing that with others, because I thought it was cute that the kids would come back from the beach and say, "What page are you on? How's it going?"

Susan Taylor:

Well, so that goes into personal goals, right? Sure. We all have personal goals. I know several years ago I decided I was going to read all of the books, the 25 books that were recommended for whatever that year was, and I read them and most were delightful and enriching, but that was a personal goal, right? So it doesn't only have to be career goals with your mission statement. And I want to go back and make another point about when we're at the stage in our lives where we're kind of frantic, we're running, running, running, we're doing everything possible. We don't even have time to think. Therapy is something I believe in. I believe absolutely everybody at some point in their life should have a therapist, right? Absolutely. To discuss things, to work through things, to help seek things objectively and more clearly. And there's no shame to having a therapist.

And in fact, I think a therapist should be part of your team.

Stacey Moore:

I think it's a great idea. And for me, even as I was going through my divorce not that long ago, I had a little bit of shame about going to therapy, but I chose to go to a divorce coach. And she is actually a psychiatrist, but for me, I felt like I had to have goals and this is what I wanted to do. And there are divorce coaches out there, ladies and

Susan Taylor:

Gentlemen - Had no idea. That

Stacey Moore:

You can go to and they will, of course, they are addressing your emotional needs that you have. But I was with my husband for 30 years. How do you then start over and go on a date or all of those things? And for me, I wanted to talk to a coach who could encourage me to, let's get back out there or let's think about who is Stacy now as someone who wants to date or things like that. And she herself had gone through a divorce. It was really interesting as a healthcare professional, one of the reasons that she said she switched from psychiatry to coaching was because she wasn't allowed to share her own personal experiences. And she felt that it was proven to her that as sharing her own experiences, those people could heal faster and could get to their goals even quicker as she could share more, which is really also the point of this podcast too.

Susan Taylor:

Polished not perfect, for sure.

You've been listening to Polished Not Perfect with Dr. Susan Taylor and Stacy Moore. Polished Not Perfect is produced by Physician Resources.